Seven D&D players walk into Belle Époque Paris...

Background

Back in September 2020, I put myself forward to run an introduction to gumshoe for our Friday group.  Our Friday group had been running for around a year, I and another long term player from our Thu/Sun groups joined, to experience a published D&D5e" campaign", it was The Tales from the Yawning Portal (TFTYP), more of that another time.  But TFTYP had just ended and each of the players were running one-shots, to give the DM a break and to gives us time on what to run next as a long term campaign.

Tales from the Yawning Portal

For my one-shot, there ended up being seven players and myself as GM, this felt a little crazy but I'd seen a similar number on online plays and the scenario I'd chosen, Ghost of the Garnier, was set-up for seven players.  I felt, as gumshoe is less mechanical and more story-led, that this could still work, but I'd never GM'd the Yellow King RPG (TYK RPG) before and personally felt that the best for online play was 3-4 players and a GM.

The Yellow King RPG

I did quite a lot of preparation, I feel, for me, that Gumshoe games require that.  Given the group were familiar with Rol20, I planned to use this VTT and had been helped by another TYK RPG player, PTroilus, who had run the scenario for me and been very generous in sharing tips on making it work on Roll20, they also had a wealth of great setting material and macros for the character sheets.

I won't go over the scenario itself, you can read about it here but what comes next is the feedback and my thoughts and responses on how a fairly hardcore D&D5e/Pathfinder group approached Gumshoe for the first time.

Now, I say the first time, but I had been inflicting Gumshoe Trail of Cthulhu on my other Thursday (mainly Runequest but now 13th Age) and Sunday (Call of Cthulhu, The Two-Headed Serpent) groups, I'm predominately a player, but I've increasingly offered one-shots - Gumshoe, Cthulhu Dark, Mork Borg, Call of Cthulhu and Liminal - between Campaign breaks or when we are short the main group.  So one of the players, J-P had experienced The Black Drop and The Kingsbury Horror so was up on the Gumshoe rules.

An all-time favourite scenario

The other players, Randy, our DM for the Tales from the Yawning Portal, Laura, Chris, Jack, James and Drake, it is fair to say mainly played D&D5e, with, for some of them, Pathfinder and they played a lot of nights each week.  I was the D&D5e noob of the group, fluffing up the rules, sticking with vanilla classes - 5e was still relatively new to me and falling into cliches - I played a grumpy, dwarven fighter with a fear/obsession with doors - having had various traps rain down on me as I naively opened every door at the rest of the parties prompting.

Rargoud, a walking cliche but still fun to play

So, I did quite a few handouts to prep people for the rules and then dolled out character sheets and with a brief summary of what to expect, we began...

From my perspective, it was a lot of fun, if at times nerve-wracking, I realised, I'd not really grasped the combat mechanics completely and had to wing it for the end battle, but it went well and the group had pushes/pools in reserve, so it was a fairly comfortable fight for them.  I always feel I do a little too much railroading in Gumshoe games, I think this is just practice and confidence, as I run more, I think, especially with the Thu/Sun group it could develop into a really fun free form scenario, going completely off-piste.

J-P thought the session went well, probably too many players and the standard feedback, that it was hard to judge progress in an investigation game, his main tip, take notes, else you will be lost. J-P has played in other Gumshoe games and likes the investigative horror genre and in his D&D5e games he often tweaks the rules to  

Ainsley (J-P), the Architect

I've thought about this and I do think for one-shots/con games, it might make sense to reflect some kind of "progress bar". maybe a mission clock like The Sprawl/Blades in the Dark and also reflect the clues/notes in a visual style e.g. a murder board, joining up the locations, suspects, clues and having it always in front of the group to refer to.  I've been kind of doing this for Liminal, but using Google's Jamboard.

Laura also enjoyed the sessions, she joked that some players had trouble digging into the more genteel aspects of turn of the century Paris, whereby a punch was never too far away.  The simpler rules and mechanics were appreciated but for her, a detailed, complicated setting with a myriad of character creation and advancement choices is what she enjoys in her RPGs.  She also pointed out how much the more Roleplay centric players got out of the setting.  

Lesley (Laura), the Portrait Painter

Reacting to this, I really appreciate the way players like Laura embraced the setting and they really made the most of their character and the roleplay aspect.  I think Laura may struggle with the character creation/advancement, Gumshoe would not give her this aspect - it's minimal in that regard, but maybe replacing skills/equipment with the story elements helps to develop her character and the character's story.  It may be a tough sell for Laura to say, be involved in a Gumshoe campaign.

Jack struggled to come up with a strong opinion on Gumshoe, he admitted this is a type of RPG he has never played before and ended up being an observer for a large part, probably, he ventured, he's not the type of player that focuses on dialogue in his RP approach and with something like D&D you have the more options as a player, on how you approach the game.  

Beverley (Jack), the Belle-Letterist

I completely understand where Jack is coming from, I'm a fairly quiet player, which is why I prefer to run more Gumshoe than play, but I also have had more experience of free format games like Powered By The Apocalypse (PBTA), these have really pushed me out of my comfort zone and ultimately have moved me in that direction, in terms of what I get out of RPGs.

Drake struggled a little to compare the experience of D&D with Gumshoe, feeling like they are worlds apart.  He appreciated the one-shot style is quite well suited to the simplistic usage of skills-based character definition, especially the core 4 skills you are good at and the boosting of rolls from pools but wondered how that would be managed in longer games.  He pondered if a campaign would then turn these into negatives if you run short of pool points if you have a key skilled up character out of the scene.  Again, like Laura, Drake really likes to focus on the building out and development of his character, so whilst a one-shot of TYK RPG was enjoyable, he didn't see how a campaign would work for him, there was just not enough variety for his character.  

Leigh (Drake), the Landscape Painter

Drake game some really thoughtful feedback and I think some of the points he raises are very valid.  Obviously, for Gumshoe aficionados, you can refresh pools during the game and between games/campaign sessions and I will link at the bottom articles on this.  Also, the point on referencing out of scene character skills is well made but I have seen other approaches to this, which again, I will link to.  Overall, I concur with Drake, I think he may struggle in a campaign of Gumshoe, as character development is minimal, the focus is on uncovering the story and good normal folks battling the impossible to try and make a small dent in the machinations of the Mythos.

James seemed to be in his element, he really enjoyed the session, especially from the pace of D&D, he favoured the Roleplay aspects and this focus and less on the mechanics, made him quickly get into the setting and flow of the game.  Overall a big win for James from the first sessions, though time will tell.

Dorian (James), the Poet

I have to thank James, as our resident Roleplayer, with a myriad of voices, characters and willing quips for every scene, he jumped in with both feet and really kept the energy of the game going and other players bounced off of this.  Whilst it could become difficult, if not impossible, to have seven James' on a session, I do think Gumshoe games benefit from having a player like this, but this doesn't mean players need to have the skill of James, just the willingness to get their players into the story or react to what is happening around them.

Chris was another player who really dived in and seemed to have a great time, he fed back that as a rules-light mystery system, it really met a lot of his expectations but like Drake, struggled to find any kind of comparison to D&D, both in setting or style, just as they are poles apart.  He preferred the comparison or similarity with Call of Cthulhu (CoC).  He saw clearly, the recommendation of combat as a last resort or a heavy consequence.  He highlighted the CoC differences to Gumshoe, CoC favouring the development of skills to successfully overcome greater odds, whilst Gumshoe focuses on the combination of role play with skills to tease out the clues.  Chris had some concerns on how less Roleplay centric players would take to the game, people who lack in that area may find it a barrier.  

Sandy (Chris), the Sculptor

Overall Chris had a lot of fun and expressed a desire to play again, we teased him that his player often went in with the most violent option, but I think that suited his ex-military hot head character and certainly created a lot of entertainment for me and the group.  His comments are insightful, he definitely throws up a potential blocker to people enjoying or playing again, with a perspective that this is a role-players game. 

Randy didn't give written feedback and I seem to recall he was only able to partially join the session, but he was quite vocal during the game, getting into the understanding of the rules and again another of the stronger role players and he added a lot to developing the relationships between the characters and getting involved in the mystery, so I think he enjoyed these elements of it, with it once again, being quite far from the mechanics and nature of his D&D5e sessions.  Being a strong GM, I think he probably felt more at ease with the story-driven aspects and developing character relationships.

Dominique (Randy), the Muse

Summary

I'd say, on balance, most people got something out of the sessions, the majority enjoying the contrast between D&D5e and a more rules-light, story-driven game, strong on role-playing and dialogue. Most of the group have expressed an interest in playing this type of game again, but mainly as a one-shot, I think they did not see this as something that would work for them as a continuing campaign.  

This to me was the exciting part of the feedback, as I think, the whole group loves role-playing and storytelling as aspects of what they get most out of RPGs, but a really important point was the development of their alter ego, their character being a part of the story and growing more powerful, or at least having multiple aspects as they gain experience.

Another aspect that came through strongly was the potential barriers to fully enjoying a game like TYK RPG, in that quieter or more mechanics, combat driven players felt that this was not "their" game, feeling a little lost in how to engage or hook the story or roleplaying on to the rules or if it is worth the time to invest when those moments, that they enjoy, are so few and far between.  I'd ague that everyone will get out of a game, based on what they put in, but I'd also sympathise, that for some people, I'd include myself, this can be challenging to get engaged and stay engaged.

In a wider iew, I feel that there is such a wide variety of styles and settings in RPGs these days, that it is fine to not get this style of game and to stick to what is comfortable, but maybe, just maybe, these experiences influence a little the games you play or run in the future and you never know, you may get converted, I certainly have been.

So, what is the punchline to the joke, "Seven RPG players walk into Belle-Epoque Paris..."?  Well, there are punch ups, trashed buildings, bad accents, annoying NPCs (who deserved to be punched in retrospect) and a boss battle at the end, so pretty much business as usual for the Paris equivalent of Ragourd and his chums.

Finally, thanks to all the players that gave up their time to take part, play in such good spirit and took the time to give me their honest and welcome feedback.

Useful Links & Notes:

(NB: I will refresh this as I get feedback & find more specific articles)

The Yellow King RPG by Pelgrane Press by Robin D. Laws

The Yellow King RPG Articles

A nice graphic on what happens when no one has a needed investigative ability, something Drake raised and I should have been a bit more prepared with the rules:

Hey, where's thingee?

Another aspects that confused players, is how to refresh pools, surely that would cause issues in longer campaigns, of course, I didn't delve too much into this as a one-shot, but here we can see pushes and abilities can be refreshed:

To Refresh or Not to Refresh?

The final aspects of Character development and campaign suitability, well I think TYK RPG has the ability to build absolutely incredible long-lasting campaigns, what with the Arc or Not to Arc aspects across the four settings:

To Arc or Not to Arc?

Though character development is a harder aspect to argue, you can develop new skills or improve existing skills, but that is all.  Then again, I think that suits the setting and approach for TYK RPG, it's normal folk against the weird and wonderful, armed only with a pen or a paintbrush... what more do you need!